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Date:	12/17/99 9:21:11 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, December 18 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1522<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
Re: OT Suggestions<BR>
Re: Online Bible (KJV)<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller (the best kind!)<BR>
Re: OT Suggestions<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
Re:  OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: SF Trav game<BR>
FFW ship stats<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: OT: Hot Rods and Gun Bunnies<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:19:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 7 Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
>> > spectacular quasar?<BR>
>><BR>
>> A quasar? Not bloody likely! (thankfully) Last I saw quasars are energy<BR>
>> sources on the order of entire galaxies going supernova. At once.<BR>
><BR>
> oops.  I was thinking of one of those blinky things... um, neutron stars...<BR>
> Pulsar!  That's it.  Sorry :-)<BR>
<BR>
Ah. Well, then my comments about black holes apply. It'd have to be<BR>
really old or the (sector sized?) nebula would still be glowing<BR>
brightly. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:21:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
>> Just keep in mind the fact that cosmic strings produce gravity effects<BR>
>> as if they were made of something denser than your average black hole.<BR>
>> Get too close and things get ugly. <BR>
><BR>
> Yes, but since they're so small, the gravity effects are still hard to<BR>
> notice, unless you're _looking_ for it. They could interpenetrate you and<BR>
> you wouldn't notice a thing, because at most they'd snack off a few atoms<BR>
> into their gravity well. Several orders of magnitude greater numbers of<BR>
> atoms spontaneously fission in your body during the same time frame.<BR>
<BR>
I could have sworn that they distorted spacetime so badly that having<BR>
one "pass through" an object would tend to be *really bad* for the<BR>
object.<BR>
<BR>
> On a cosmic string level, neutronium is mostly empty space...<BR>
<BR>
Naturally. After all, they are nothing but a "line defect" in<BR>
spacetime. *Zero* thickness. Just enough "missing" spacetime that a<BR>
circle with a string running thru it has a circumference noticeably<BR>
*less* than 2*pi*r.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:26:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Suggestions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 21:57 -0500 16/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>> > First, go get FinderPop. The Mac has much more customizable context menus<BR>
>> > (like right clicking in Windows), but you have to press the control key<BR>
>> > when you click.<BR>
>><BR>
>>The things I learn on this list. I must have missed that it the (*old*)<BR>
>>manual I have.<BR>
><BR>
> I think this was only fully implemented in MacOS >8, and Drag and <BR>
> Drop becoming pervasive is System 7 onwards...<BR>
<BR>
Ah. That explains it. I can't *run* version 8. The hardware isn't up to<BR>
it. And I only upped to 7.5 recently.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:33:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Online Bible (KJV)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey Leonard, where did you get that downloadable bible? What format is it<BR>
> in?  I might find it a handy reference...<BR>
<BR>
The Oxford Text Archive. I don't have the URL handy, but any decent<BR>
search engine should be able to find it. <BR>
<BR>
I grabbed the ASCII version, but they supposedly also have SGML, HTML<BR>
and RTF versions.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:58:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller (the best kind!)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: are there interstellar garbage scows? How much<BR>
> would one cost? Now one of those would make an<BR>
> excellent tramp trader, so long as you could persuade<BR>
> one of the PCs to wash it out... I think I'll have to<BR>
> add that to the freight tables: "garbage, destination,<BR>
> nearest sun." <BR>
> Or maybe the garbage gets dumped on that prison<BR>
> planet? Gives them something to play with.<BR>
<BR>
As tech levels go up "garbage" increasinly becomes a *resource*. It's<BR>
frequently richer in raw materials than the remaining ores. <BR>
<BR>
And on planets with "unusable" atmospheres (too little, toxic, etc) and<BR>
thus a need for "closed cycle" ecologies, it may be a criminal offense<BR>
to *not* recycle organics, or to "contaminate" recyclable organics.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:27:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT Suggestions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > First, go get FinderPop. The Mac has much more customizable context menus<BR>
>> > (like right clicking in Windows), but you have to press the control key<BR>
>> > when you click.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The things I learn on this list. I must have missed that it the (*old*)<BR>
>> manual I have.<BR>
><BR>
> Well it's a system 8+ thang, which if you're using '030's and '020's you<BR>
> can't play with. :-/ <BR>
<BR>
"'030's and '020's"? It is to laugh. Try 68000. At least I think that's<BR>
what's in the SE. The SE *30* is the one with a 68030.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:19:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On the other hand, because the "effective dose" of LSD is *so*<BR>
>small, most of the folks producing it "got away with" simply<BR>
>*appalling* lab technique. Most acid contained impurities that would<BR>
>have been *fatal* if the required dose was anywhere *near* that of<BR>
>most other drugs.<BR>
><BR>
> So it's quite possible that the "brown acid" had so *really* nasty<BR>
> contaminants, or had *gotten* contaminated by something nasty.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, but the dosages are so tiny that this is rather unlikely. Even so, I'm<BR>
reasonably sure that the brown acid was thought to be causing bad trips. The<BR>
famous Woodstock announcement sort of supports me on this, as I can't recall<BR>
any ill physical effects being mentioned, and the announcement closed with<BR>
something along the lines of, "...it's your trip, so be careful."<BR>
<BR>
I would think that if people were becoming physically ill they would have<BR>
mentioned this fact.<BR>
<BR>
> > However, if I recall my Woodstock lore, and it's been about a<BR>
> >decade since last I read up on it, the brown acid was thought to be<BR>
> >causing bad trips. It probably wasn't the "fault" of the acid though,<BR>
> >it's much more likely it was simply the environment that was<BR>
> >freaking people out.<BR>
><BR>
> Also possible.<BR>
<BR>
I'm inclined to lean in this direction, myself.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:47:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> one crazy with conventional weapons.  Just like one crazy with an assault<BR>
> rifle can killl 10-15 people in two seconds (ifiring into a tighltly packed<BR>
> crowd), whereas a guy with a knife would be lucky to manage one.<BR>
<BR>
1. an "assualt rifle" is a *fully automatic* weapon. As such it is<BR>
   covered by the laws regarding "machine guns". And only *one* such<BR>
   weapon is on record as having been both legally possessed *and* used<BR>
   in a crime.<BR>
2. The so-called "assualt weapon" (an invention of the media) is a<BR>
   *semi-automatic* weapon (one trigger pull, one shot fired). And it<BR>
   is *functionally* no different than the majority of hunting rifles.<BR>
   The term is applied to weapons that "look military" but are<BR>
   otherwise unremarkable. They most certainly are no more dangerous<BR>
   than "normal" rifles. Unless you know of someone adding a bayonet<BR>
   and *stabbing* people with it?<BR>
3. You *cannot* shoot "10-15 people in two seconds" with a semi-auto<BR>
   rifle. The mechanism won't *operate* that fast. Hell, you can't do<BR>
   that with most *full* auto weapons. You are describing a "cyclic<BR>
   rate" of 300-450 rounds per minute. <BR>
   Next, we come to the *fact* that you can't *aim* that fast. If you<BR>
   just "spray and pray" you aren't likely to *hit* with even half of<BR>
   your shots, crowd or no. And you *certainly* won't be *killing*<BR>
   everyone you hit. That takes either extreme luck or a *properly<BR>
   placed* shot. And you aren't going to be able to "properly place"<BR>
   shots at the rate you claim.<BR>
   Please note that the spress with high *death* rates are the ones<BR>
   where the perpetrator(s) wandered around *taking their time* aiming<BR>
   and shooting. Not the cases where bullets were fired wildly. <BR>
4. *10* shots is standard magazine capacity. 5, if you are using the<BR>
    magazines required by many states hunting laws. Yes, if you haver<BR>
    an extended magazine, you can have 30 rounds. Which if your rate of<BR>
    fire was correct would result in emptying the magazine in *four<BR>
    seconds*. As I noted, it reality it'd take longer. Please note that<BR>
    in several of these "shooting sprees" people have tackled the<BR>
    gunman when he changed magazines (actually, in the "local" one,<BR>
    they tackled him while he still had ammo). *Unlike* a knife, you<BR>
    are *safe* once you get close to a man with a rifle. You have to be<BR>
    out *beyond* the end of the barrel for him to shoot you. With a<BR>
    knife you have to be able to immobilize his hand.<BR>
<BR>
In short, you overestimate both the deadliness and the rate of fire of<BR>
weapons. And you grossly *underestimate both the *ease* of tackling<BR>
someone with a gun (the folks that have tried mostly didn't even get<BR>
wounded!) and the *difficulty* of doing so to a man with a knife (or a<BR>
machete). I mention the machete because such have been used in recent<BR>
years in a couple of killing sprees.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:33:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
At 03:39 PM 12/17/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
<BR>
>> (Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
>> spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
>> ... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
><BR>
>This one has come up for me every Christmas for the last few years. Be wary,<BR>
>however, no folklorist has been able to antedate the story before 1993, and<BR>
>the location, year and size of the display varies in each telling.<BR>
><BR>
>For anyone who cares, that should be a *big* red flag.<BR>
<BR>
I don't care.. I want one!!!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:35:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mistranslating the Ten Commandments (was Re: Silly Traveller)<BR>
<BR>
At 06:06 PM 12/17/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Also, elsewhere in the TNK, "Suffer not a witch to live" should<BR>
>have read "poisoner" for "witch".<BR>
<BR>
I've also seen an argument for "cook who wastes food"<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:38:00<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
At 04:17 PM 12/17/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'd kind of like to play a map-and-counters game of<BR>
>U.S.A. versus Canada.  I'm sure we'd quickly take out<BR>
>their air force and capture the major cities, but<BR>
>rooting the rebels out of the mountains and forests<BR>
>could take a really long time.  <BR>
<BR>
That's what Western-Pacific lumber is for..<BR>
<BR>
"There ya go boys, a few hundred thousand square miles and not a single<BR>
spotted owl!  Let 'em rip!"<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:41:17<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SF Trav game<BR>
<BR>
At 01:27 PM 12/17/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>At 03:55 PM 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>So Doug when ARE we gonna play Traveller???<BR>
><BR>
>Yeah!  When are we? ;)<BR>
><BR>
>Only thing I request is that you give me plenty of time to pick up "Alien <BR>
>Module 9: Penguins" from eBay.<BR>
<BR>
(Looks up from Word6)  Does the phrase "deadlines" mean anything to y'all?<BR>
Anyway, I'm not stopping anybody else in this area from starting a game...<BR>
(goes back to describing Zhodani military tactics.)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
 http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:41:25 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: FFW ship stats<BR>
<BR>
I'm positive somebody has to have asked this; just point<BR>
me in the right direction to find the answer.<BR>
<BR>
1.In MT Rebellion Sourcebook there is a chart that<BR>
details various worlds pdbn's. I don't think, however,<BR>
it includes any of the regular forces that your able to<BR>
move around. Is there a quick chart for that?<BR>
<BR>
2. How do you evaluate a ship/squadron in FFW<BR>
terms? For example, if I have 50 400t patrol cruisers,<BR>
does that rate 2-2-4.<BR>
<BR>
3. Is there a quick way to determine how many<BR>
sdb's a system has in FFW?<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry(plop101) cloaking to lurk.... . . .   .<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:59:33 -0800<BR>
From: "James W. Lindsay" <jlindsay@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 20:57:10 -0500, Swordy (Colin Michael) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Jason Kemp" <Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us><BR>
> <BR>
> > The Ubiquitous ObTrav: Imagine the cultural diversity of the 3I. What <BR>
> > do Imperial holiday cards read like?<BR>
<BR>
How about:<BR>
<BR>
Forwarding an Alternative Season's Greetings: Please accept with no<BR>
obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally<BR>
conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral<BR>
celebration of the Terran winter solstice holiday, practiced within the<BR>
most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or<BR>
secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular<BR>
persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice<BR>
religious or secular traditions at all: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year<BR>
and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically<BR>
uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar<BR>
year XXXX, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other<BR>
cultures or races whose contributions to universal society have helped make<BR>
The Imperium great, (not to imply that The Imperium is necessarily greater<BR>
than any other star-spanning empire), and without regard to the race,<BR>
creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer<BR>
platform, or sexual preference of the wishee. (By accepting this greeting,<BR>
you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or<BR>
withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original<BR>
greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of<BR>
the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law,<BR>
and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is<BR>
warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good<BR>
tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent<BR>
holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to<BR>
replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion<BR>
of the wisher.) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
James W. Lindsay       Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<BR>
"http://members.home.net/jlindsay"   ICQ:7521644 (Sharkey)<BR>
<BR>
"Honk if you've slept with Riker."<BR>
           -- typical Starfleet shuttlecraft bumpersticker<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:36:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Going OT:  the above is actually influenced by some posts I got on another<BR>
>> list, on the topic of gun control!  Apparently, the civil rights movement<BR>
>> in the US, one of the classic "nonviolent" movements, was defended by a<BR>
>> very large proportion of its members possessing guns.  This resulting in<BR>
>> the white hood brigade suffering some very embarrassing setbacks....  <BR>
><BR>
> What incident was that?  I can only think of that incident in South<BR>
> Carolina in '82 ('83?) where the guns were distributed overwhelmingly<BR>
> otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
Most such "incidents" were purely local. Things like the local KKK boys<BR>
getting drunk and deciding to "scare the niggers" by burning a cross on<BR>
someone's lawn, or at the local black church (or even burning the<BR>
church). Some sympathetic white would anonymously call the target(s)<BR>
and warn them. So the white hood brigade shows up and run into some<BR>
blacks, armed with shotguns (hard to take away when they use them to<BR>
hunt for food!). <BR>
<BR>
In one case I heard of, the blacks waited until the KKK goons got out<BR>
of the cars and then (from cover) blew the hell out of the *cars*.<BR>
After all, they didn't want to get in trouble for shooting a white man.<BR>
<BR>
The cars that were still drivable got packed full of KKK members in<BR>
full (panicked) retreat. And the ones that weren't drivable got towed<BR>
away later as abandoned. And by mutual, unspoken agreement, the blacks<BR>
didn't ask any questions about who owned the cars, and the law didn't<BR>
ask any questions about how they came to be shot up. <BR>
<BR>
You have to keep in mind that while *most* Southerners thought that<BR>
blacks were "inferior" they *didn't* approve of KKK tactics such as<BR>
shootings, burnings, hangings and mutilations. So when the KKK got<BR>
whupped in one of these confrontations, most of the locals would think<BR>
"serves 'em right" as long as the blacks didn't get "uppity" because of<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:48:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Hot Rods and Gun Bunnies<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Moving Gun Control Flamebait away from Trav (like it was on topic), I<BR>
> thought I'd mention the reason I was interested -- I've just finished<BR>
> co-authoring HOT RODS AND GUN BUNNIES for Guardians of Order.  It's our Big<BR>
> Eyes, Small Mouth anime-style guns-and-cars book.  There's lots of simple<BR>
> rules for guns, but also a lengthy appendix detailing U.S., Canadian and<BR>
> Japanese gun laws, and so on.  After having spent a few weeks reading<BR>
> the mish-mash of laws in the United States and the sheer illogic of many of<BR>
> them (the way AP handgun rounds have been extended to rifle ammo by BATF,<BR>
> etc.)<BR>
<BR>
That last came about because politicians just can't seem to grasp the<BR>
concept that Kevlar vests are *not* "bullet-proof". They are *only*<BR>
intended to protect against *typical* PISTOL rounds, which tend to be<BR>
low-power, low-velocity. They were *never* intended to protect against<BR>
rifle rounds, which, with the exception of the various .22 rounds, are<BR>
*high* velocity, *high* power. <BR>
<BR>
So, not understanding this, they decided to try defining "Armor<BR>
Piercing" rounds as those which pentrate a typical "bullet-proof" vest,<BR>
rather than as rounds which can penetrate *real* armor.<BR>
<BR>
It doesn't help that the cheapest ammo for several types of rifles is<BR>
surplus Russian and Soviet military ammo, a lot of which *is* "armor<BR>
piercing" in that it contains a steel "penetrator" inside the lead<BR>
bullet. Which is moderately irrelevant, since even without the<BR>
penetrator, a round would go thru a vest *or* the door of a vehicle.<BR>
With the penetrator, it may damage a car engine. <BR>
<BR>
But the point is that there's a difference between "armor piercing" and<BR>
"dangerous to cops". Basicly, any round useful for hunting is<BR>
"dangerous to cops". <BR>
<BR>
> I must say I am sympathetic with some of the complaints of gun<BR>
> owners... Of course, the Japanese gun laws are rather interesting in<BR>
> themselves. "In ALL OF JAPAN only 50 pistol holders licenses will be issued<BR>
> at any one time. To get one, shoot expert in an air pistol tournment. Then<BR>
> we'll do a background check on you _and_ your family. Carry the pistol only<BR>
> in a locked box.  And when your pistol isn't in use for target practice,<BR>
> keep it as the police station." That's gun control ):  Of course, a few<BR>
> thousand illegal handguns still leak into Japan each year...<BR>
<BR>
And then there's those *ultra*-realistic reproduction guns that I hear<BR>
are so popular in Japan. Which *used* to be able to interchange parts<BR>
with the real thing until there were some unfortunate incidents where<BR>
people swapped in a *real* barrel and receiver and shot someone. :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:22:43 +1100<BR>
From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" <jimpeta@primus.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1517<BR>
<BR>
>In short, you overestimate both the deadliness and the rate of fire of<BR>
>weapons. And you grossly *underestimate both the *ease* of tackling<BR>
>someone with a gun (the folks that have tried mostly didn't even get<BR>
>wounded!) and the *difficulty* of doing so to a man with a knife (or a<BR>
>machete). I mention the machete because such have been used in recent<BR>
>years in a couple of killing sprees.<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
    I'm a gun addict but this is getting to me. No further away than 20km<BR>
from my house a guy called Martin Bryant calmly walked around killing people<BR>
with a semi-auto rifle. He killed thirty four people and wounded eighteen,<BR>
most were trapped in a restaurant as he stood in the doorway. He delivered<BR>
coup de gras to children while adults were in the room trying to get out. If<BR>
he had a knife he would not of made it, they would have swarmed him and he<BR>
would have been caught. He had time to reload several times because too many<BR>
of his victims were too terrified to try and knock him over.<BR>
    Our government responded to this by banning semi-autos and cutting back<BR>
on mental health spending, no one was surprised.<BR>
    Before he walked up and pulled the trigger, Bryant was a desperately<BR>
sick young man who was being neglected by his society. Bryant would carry<BR>
his SKS around and regularly threaten people with it. He wasn't evil or<BR>
wearing a black hat. All he needed was the community (?!) to recognise his<BR>
illness and attempt a cure. As his choices narrowed due to his illness he<BR>
became more frantic which resulted in Australia's worst killing spree. Its<BR>
the lonely people who stew over their guns that need help before they hurt<BR>
others and themselves.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:09:03 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
>> Happy Holidays, (or whatever you choose to celebrate,)<BR>
><BR>
>As  a  Christian  I  celebrate   the   *Christian*   holiday   of<BR>
>*Christmas*, and send best wishes to all (Christian  or  not)  at<BR>
>this time.  (Okay, I admit  I  tend  to  celebrate  it  with  the<BR>
>standard fusion of Christian and Pagan traditions.)<BR>
<BR>
As an athiest, I don't celebrate anything. But I do take quite a bit<BR>
of enjoyment at all the pretty lights that people put on their houses<BR>
and fences and balconies and trees and so on... incluidng on the bushes<BR>
next to my front door and along my back fence. (Getting extra time off<BR>
work is also cool.)<BR>
<BR>
>(Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
>spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
>... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
<BR>
Now, that's just plain *sick*...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:13:42 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>I've written a space combat game the history of which has combined USA and<BR>
>Canada into the Union of North America.  How would Canadians feal about<BR>
>that? <BR>
<BR>
Depends -- is Canada joining the USA, or is the USA joining Canada?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:23:04 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>> I presume there was an invasion?  I can't see it happening<BR>
>> voluntarily...  Most Canadians are very quick to say they aren't<BR>
Americans....<BR>
><BR>
>Unless sometime in the 21st century, the Parti Quebecois actually succeeds<BR>
>in their separation referendum. The Maritimes, cut off from the rest of<BR>
>Canada and with a terrible economic situation, petition to join the USA, as<BR>
>do the western provinces....<BR>
<BR>
I can understand the Maritimes petitioning to join the USA, beign cut off<BR>
and with a terrible economic situation, but the western provinces? With<BR>
an economy as strong as ours, I don't see why we would want to join the<BR>
USA. I can see the west going it alone before I can see it joining the US.<BR>
(No offence to those of you already *in* the US...)<BR>
<BR>
>I for one sure hope the PQ NEVER succeeds. They'd be cutting their nose off<BR>
>despite their face.<BR>
<BR>
Whereas I hope that the PQ gets what it wants, soon, and good riddance...<BR>
for mostly the same reasons...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:29:01 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT unless applying Kenji's corollary<BR>
<BR>
>Considering that Canadian provinces have the powers that individual States<BR>
>used to have, this seems like a good conservative tonic. <BR>
<BR>
Our provinces have powers the individual states used to have??? Like<BR>
what? One big difference I've noticed is that in Canada, criminal law<BR>
is a federal matter, while in the USA it's a state matter (except for<BR>
federal crimes). So we have one Criminal Code for the entire country.<BR>
<BR>
>The socialized medicine thing would have to go, however.<BR>
<BR>
We don't have "socialized medicine" -- we have a publicly-funded universal<BR>
health care insurance plan. Think of it as a "single-payer" system like<BR>
I keep reading about that some people down your way propose.<BR>
<BR>
(In a true "socialized medicine" system, doctors are employees of the <BR>
state and are paid a flat salary; private practice is virtually unknown.<BR>
I have relatives in Europe in countries that have socialized medicine --<BR>
when they need a doctor, the only thing they can do is go to the local<BR>
clinic and wait for the next availble doctor, whoever it might be.)<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:36:15 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 8:49:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
redroach@flex.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< My other question is this: Okay, you have the genes to be a priest, but how<BR>
 many still have any clue as to the actual rituals?  Am I wrong in thinking<BR>
 that  no one has really performed any official "temple" rituals in a while?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I am pretty sure it's all described in the Torah (Old Testamet), in I think <BR>
Exodus and/or Levitticus...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: would the Koran, Torah and King James Bible be recognizable in 5700 <BR>
AD?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:39:58 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 9:40:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I am suddenly reminded of an episode of the old SF comedy series, circa<BR>
 >1978, in which they were celebrating a Christmas-type holiday, "Number 11".<BR>
 <BR>
 Quark.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Richard Benjamin is a genius...:-). We should name something in the OTU after <BR>
him...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:16:24 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Rations<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/17/99 2:33:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, aramis@gci.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< ObTrav: will 3I grunts still complain about their<BR>
 >> food, and will field rations still bind them up?<BR>
 <BR>
 Of Course! Said lack of excrement in the short term does have tactical<BR>
 advantages. It's a design FEATURE of field rations, not a bug! >><BR>
<BR>
Hell, when I was Civil War reenacting, I would purposely load up on hard <BR>
cheddar cheese to induce constipation. I hated crapping in the porta potties, <BR>
and because of environmental laws, we couldn't dig latrine trenches (I like <BR>
these better believe it or not, as they smell less if you are good about <BR>
using quick lime a lot...:-). This worked well for weekend events, but not <BR>
for longer events...:-).<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: I never saw any articles about plumbing or bodily functions in <BR>
canon. I always wondered what you did about pets. Who walks the dog, or <BR>
changes the cat litterbox?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1522<BR>
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